Part 2 - Shuffle Synchronicities Podscript 🎙📇 with Ray Padgett
is it also like an advent calendar?
NOTE: Again recommend getting the free Substack App.
Some posts are a bit too long for email inboxes like Gmail and you can only hear the Audio embeds on the app or on the website…🤷♂️
Today’s recommendation for other Substackers if you download the app is
who is based in India and if you kept up with Volume 1.5, you might remember we developed a kindred pen-pal relationship that led to a guest post and a shuffle 🔀 synchronicity ✨ of a Krishna Das kirtan chant song. She produces:
In which, among many topics, Swarna explores the lives of women from different strata of class and cultures, underprivileged children, feminine sexuality and strength, criticism of wars and other crimes on humanity, and economic and class disparity.
They’re weighty topics, yes, but somehow also feel light with her graceful touch.
So, um, yeah, get the app already!
Previously…
In Part 1 of the Podscript 🎙📇
We introduced Ray Padgett and the subject of Dylan playing live. More specifically:
Why Dylan's performances are so unusual and produce such polarizing audience responses
The mechanics of how Dylan conducts his band differently from other musicians
How band members have described the gig
And the meaning perhaps of Dylan’s inclusion in the Pixar movie’s Soul soundtrack
Want to catch up?
Part 1 is available here. The Preamble here.
Don’t want to wait?
The audio of the full Podcast is also already available:
Otherwise…
Part 2 of The Shuffle Synchronicities Podscript 🎙📇 with Ray Padgett
begins now!
Wait, a Substack can become so popular you can adapt it into a book?
Dave
So you just mentioned that you have a new interview that you're doing that's only going to be in the book. And so it seems like this book came about through the popularity of these interviews. Why do you think the interviews are the most popular part of your Substack? And how it took off?
Ray
Yeah. I've been thinking about that. It's a good question. Something that sort of surprised me. I mean, my Substack’s all about Dylan concerts and, I don't know, 75, probably, no, probably more, probably 90 percent of them are not interviews. Because the interviews take a lot of work and it's hard to get people to talk.
Dave
Right.
Ray
So I probably went, I don't know, a year before I did a single interview.
Dave
Oh wow.
Ray
But I think, people, my sort of theory is that, people are so fascinated by Bob Dylan as a figure, and Bob Dylan as a musical performer, because he's so different, because he's enigmatic, because he himself is not gonna answer any of the questions you might have for him.
Dave
Right <laugh> Yes.
Ray
So hearing these people who have actually worked with him and, in many cases, haven't really spoken before, I've had a lot of luck getting these people who have been sort of silent, for decades sometimes.
Dave
Yeah.
Ray
A window into, you know, sometimes it's like funny personal anecdotes and, obviously, everyone loves those. But sometimes it's just sort of getting into the weeds of like creating these arrangements and playing on stage and what it's like Dylan as a band leader and that sort of thing. And I think, I'm fascinated by that, and I think a lot of other people are too. Because it's this sort of black box that it's been, it's fairly hard to get a read on as with so much Dylan stuff.
How do you, um, get people to, um, talk to you?
Dave
Yeah. This is, this is not the follow-up question that I was gonna ask. How do you <laugh> get these people to talk to you? How do you get, you know, the trust of these band members? I mean, is it because you built this following beforehand? Because you said it took a year for you to start doing interviews, is that people kind of looking at your Substack and saying, Okay, Ray, he understands what we were doing. And then they trust you, and want to work with you? Like, how does that work in getting all those people's trust?
Ray
I think that's the big one. You know, it's, I mean, Lord knows I still get plenty of No’s. People are reticent to talk about Bob Dylan.
Dave
Yeah.
Ray
When I first started it was almost all No’s. But once I had, you know, some that had run, I could point people to other people who would see, Oh, this isn't like gossipy, or like dumb, or like trying to pry into Bob's personal life. And it's also not the sort of interview that maybe some of these people maybe have done before, where if it's like for a general outlet, they do a 20-minute interview and the place uses two sentences.
Dave
Right.
Ray
Like, my place is for Dylan fans. So it's gonna go long, it's gonna be wonky. I run all of them as Q and A’s. So the people, it's really in their own words. It's not me like paraphrasing loosely what they said. And I think that's a big part of it. And then people recommend other people.
Dave
Oh, cool.
Ray
Like, I'll do an interview, the guy likes it, and he's like, Oh man, so, you know, I was the drummer and you gotta talk to the guitarist I was playing with, he was great, let me give you his number. So I get a lot like that too.
Have you found them all yet, Ray?
Dave
Yeah. How many people would you say have played with Dylan? Have you ever calculated that? And again, this is not something we <laugh> prepped for So just throwing it out there. Like, have you ever calculated how many there were, and how many there are still out there to find, that kind of thing?
Ray
Uh, I don't have a hard number, but, I've looked into it. You know, in terms of played with, my interviews are sort of in two categories, the main ones, the longest ones, are with his official band members. But then I also have ones with, you know, people who sat in for a show or two. In terms of the band members. Rough estimate? A hundred.
Dave
Wow.
Ray
He's actually been fairly stable recently. But in the earlier decades, really up until maybe the 21st century, there was a lot of rotation. Sometimes one person or two people at a time. Sometimes entire bands would come and go. So he's cycled through quite a few over the years.
What are these folks like?
Dave
Yeah, wow, and going back to that black box statement, there's been kind of a black box around this culture of musicians who play with him. I noticed that, it seems, to me at least, that people do not, yeah, they don't really talk about, not just his biography, but also his intentions, in terms of, his music, what he's going out there on stage to do, even you know, the songs, the lyrics themselves. And there was a quote from one of the interviews that stuck out to me. It was:
“He was a cult figure to me that you could never know. So I didn't really bother trying. I didn't really think about his life or the depth of it. I was young and dumb man, a rock and roll fan. I love what I loved and Bob was part of it. I love Steppenwolf too, I was more like, I wonder what kind of chicks Bob gets. I wonder what he drives.”
Dave
And so, kind of going through these, I was, like, do you think that he sought out types of musicians, who respected that reclusive, enigmatic, element of his persona? Or were not interested in it <laugh> as this guy maybe is suggesting? Like is there a type of musician Bob sought out versus other kinds of musicians that he could have found?
Ray
That's an interesting question. You know, I also <laugh> don't know Bob's intentions on so many things.
Dave
<laugh> Right, there you go. Yeah, I guess I'm falling into the <laugh> problem itself.
Ray
I will say though, we're talking about The Heartbreakers, and I think that quote is from Stan, too. But, like, that's actually fairly unusual, especially in the latest three or four decades. The people he tends to get tend to be unflashy, unfamous kind-of-like-musicians’-musicians-types. Names that most people wouldn't have heard of. Even big Dylan nerds. When he, the last time he hired a couple of people was when he came back from the Pandemic. And I don't think anyone had heard of these people. And you look 'em up and they got credits, you know, they're legit, but they're fairly behind the scenes people. He doesn't tend to get like, I don't know, Oh, it's Bob Dylan and on guest guitar this tour it’s Eddie Van Halen <laugh> You know?
Dave
<laugh> Yeah, yeah.
Ray
So, yeah, these people tend to be somewhat, reclusive isn't the word, but they're not, you know, people who are doing a lot of interviews generally, and they're not people who are sort of really front and center with their own public careers.
Dave
Yeah. Interesting.
Speculative versus Grounded
Dave
Yeah, I think, that's gonna be a theme that comes out throughout this [episode of the] podcast is that, like, I have a very, like, speculative brain. I mean, clearly <laugh> the shuffle is, you know, in a way, it's all just confabulations of what I'm projecting onto lyrics, or myself, or my reality.
Dave
Whereas you seem to have a more, you know, grounded, journalistic perspective, on what he's doing. I mean, is that an unspoken Dylan rule among people who write about Dylan? Or is that just how you are? How does that work for you?
Ray
That’s not, it's not, I'm not following any sort of Dylan rule. You know, my audience is not obviously Dylan or it's not even his office. I sort of don't care what they think.
Dave/Ray
<laugh>
Ray
I would say in terms of the interviews, it's just the way I work. All these other newsletters, in those ones, I'm a lot looser with opinion, or just goofing around. You know, I'll do one that's like, here are the 10 stupidest outfits he wore in 1987.
Bob Dylan
I know what he really loves you for. It’s your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat.
Ray
But yeah, on the interviews, it's sort of journalistic, and also, I just wanna take myself out of it as much as possible. Like, a lot of times when I'm editing them, I'll delete a lot of my questions, if I'm like asking follow-ups, I'll just get rid of 'em. So it's really mostly the person talking.
Dave
Yeah.
Ray
Because I'm sort of, I've tried to be more of a conduit to share their stories of working,
Dave
Yeah.
Ray
Working with Bob, and not inserting myself very much.
Dave
Yeah.
Dave
I mean, it's such a service to the community, is what it feels like when I'm reading through them…
Dave
…You're really allowing people who love what they've seen live, or just the history of his music, to get inside of it, which is amazing. I love that part of it.
Thanks for reading Part 2 of the Podscript🎙📇!
And for supporting Volume 2 of Shuffle Synchronicities.
Part 3 will be emailed tomorrow. Part 1 is available here. The Preamble here.
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And your life!
Thanks Dave for your kind words and recommendation. Your podcasts and guests are all 🔥 The Dylan analysis is timeless and fascinating to say the least! Hurray for Shuffle’s growth into new paradigms!
I didn't like it when Dylan did a whole concert of his songs to a reggae beat. It didn't feel like reinvention, it felt more like a lazy gimmick. But huge respect to the man who was part of the soundtrack of my life.